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The Italian Budget 00:23 - Oct 24 with 1548 viewsKerouac

The Italian government want to do what the Labour Party have been saying we should do here...namely, spend more government money to stimulate growth.

The EU Commission is "demanding changes", telling Italy to revise it's budget.
The Commission said the first draft represented a "particularly serious non-compliance" with its recommendations.
The Commission Vice-President for the euro, Valdis Dombrovskis, said Italy's response to the commission's concerns was "not sufficient" to assuage fears - and the euro's rules were the same for everybody.



So I ask, as many of the Remainers on here are also supporters of higher government spending in the UK how do you feel about the statements from the commission?

Should Italy press ahead with their budget plans regardless?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
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The Italian Budget on 03:16 - Oct 24 with 1500 viewsHighjack

Demanding changes and fines for non-compliance, but Italy still has its sovereignty folks. Honest!

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The Italian Budget on 07:10 - Oct 24 with 1451 viewsAnotherJohn

The Italian Budget on 03:16 - Oct 24 by Highjack

Demanding changes and fines for non-compliance, but Italy still has its sovereignty folks. Honest!


This is the aspect that many of the Remainers prefer to ignore.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/EPRS/EPRS-AaG-542182-Review-six-pack-two-pack-FINA

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/graphs/2014-11-10_excessive_deficit_procedur

Strange how so many on the left now seem to have thrown their weight behind an approach that makes Keynesian economics almost impossible.
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The Italian Budget on 08:37 - Oct 24 with 1416 viewsItchySphincter

Plenty of remainers would agree that the EU's broken as it is. I chance to reform might have been nice.

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/231026/3315278/
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The Italian Budget on 10:51 - Oct 24 with 1356 viewsCatullus

The Italian Budget on 08:37 - Oct 24 by ItchySphincter

Plenty of remainers would agree that the EU's broken as it is. I chance to reform might have been nice.


Well yes, and I have said if the EU reformed I could happily change my vote. However it has been shown several times that the EU doesn't do reform, it sticks to it's ideology.

As I have said several times, the EU doesn't like state aid, it likes to say it champions competition and competition should mean lower prices, more efficiency etc but the reality has been different and they have become frinds of the corporations.

If the EU leaders and commission were elected we could get rid of the current lot and put people in charge who say they would change it. As long as the current leaders effectively choose the next leaders, nothing will change.
Letting the Council make the nomination and having the MEP's rubber stamp it isn't my idea of democracy.
Saying that, there are plenty on here who don't seem to think the people should be making these choices either!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The Italian Budget on 14:09 - Oct 24 with 1280 viewsHighjack

5 other countries have also received letters from the EU telling them off about planning to spend too much in their respective budgets although not in as strong terms as the one received by Rome.

How did we get to the point where nationally elected Governments are being told how and when they can spend the money from the taxpayer? Or not in this case.

Why does anybody want to be part of this?

Does anybody still believe that austerity isn't driven by the EU?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The Italian Budget on 18:00 - Oct 24 with 1201 viewsLeonWasGod

The Italian Budget on 14:09 - Oct 24 by Highjack

5 other countries have also received letters from the EU telling them off about planning to spend too much in their respective budgets although not in as strong terms as the one received by Rome.

How did we get to the point where nationally elected Governments are being told how and when they can spend the money from the taxpayer? Or not in this case.

Why does anybody want to be part of this?

Does anybody still believe that austerity isn't driven by the EU?


It’s not money from the tax payer though. I thought the Italian government want to increase their debt and borrow more the Italian central bank? If they were just spending money raised through taxes the EU wouldn’t be involved.

Whatever. As long as Naughton only plays at right back I’ll go with the majority view.
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The Italian Budget on 19:39 - Oct 24 with 1165 viewsHighjack

The Italian Budget on 18:00 - Oct 24 by LeonWasGod

It’s not money from the tax payer though. I thought the Italian government want to increase their debt and borrow more the Italian central bank? If they were just spending money raised through taxes the EU wouldn’t be involved.

Whatever. As long as Naughton only plays at right back I’ll go with the majority view.


Well obviously it’s a mixture of tax receipts and borrowing. Just like any other government really, but they and five other countries are unable to use that money as they see fit as the EU aren’t allowing them. They must cut spending and borrowing to avoid fines and sanctions. Forced austerity.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 with 1149 viewslondonlisa2001

The Italian Budget on 19:39 - Oct 24 by Highjack

Well obviously it’s a mixture of tax receipts and borrowing. Just like any other government really, but they and five other countries are unable to use that money as they see fit as the EU aren’t allowing them. They must cut spending and borrowing to avoid fines and sanctions. Forced austerity.


It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.

But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong.
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The Italian Budget on 20:17 - Oct 24 with 1124 viewsDr_Winston

The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001

It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.

But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong.


Sharing a currency seems like a stupid idea then.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Italian Budget on 20:36 - Oct 24 with 1098 viewslondonlisa2001

The Italian Budget on 20:17 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston

Sharing a currency seems like a stupid idea then.


Well it depends what you want.

We share a currency within the UK for example.

But the permanent opt out of the Euro the UK had from the EU always seemed like a good idea to me.
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The Italian Budget on 20:39 - Oct 24 with 1100 viewsDr_Winston

The Italian Budget on 20:36 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001

Well it depends what you want.

We share a currency within the UK for example.

But the permanent opt out of the Euro the UK had from the EU always seemed like a good idea to me.


The UK is politically one nation. You can't have a single currency without a single Government. It's hard enough to shape financial policy to benefit the entire UK, never mind an entire, politically divided continent.

Steering well clear of being part of the Euro (despite Blair's desires) was probably Gordon Brown's greatest contribution.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Italian Budget on 21:11 - Oct 24 with 1073 viewsFlashberryjack

The Italian Budget on 20:39 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston

The UK is politically one nation. You can't have a single currency without a single Government. It's hard enough to shape financial policy to benefit the entire UK, never mind an entire, politically divided continent.

Steering well clear of being part of the Euro (despite Blair's desires) was probably Gordon Brown's greatest contribution.


That kwnt Blair...him wanting us to remain in the EU is probably a very good reason why we shouldn't.

Hello

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The Italian Budget on 21:19 - Oct 24 with 1068 viewsDr_Winston

The Italian Budget on 21:11 - Oct 24 by Flashberryjack

That kwnt Blair...him wanting us to remain in the EU is probably a very good reason why we shouldn't.


I'm quite happy being on the alternate side to Blair, Heseltine & Clegg.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Italian Budget on 21:23 - Oct 24 with 1056 viewsexiledclaseboy

The Italian Budget on 21:19 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston

I'm quite happy being on the alternate side to Blair, Heseltine & Clegg.


And Thatcher.

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The Italian Budget on 21:25 - Oct 24 with 1052 viewsDr_Winston

The Italian Budget on 21:23 - Oct 24 by exiledclaseboy

And Thatcher.


Her too.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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The Italian Budget on 14:28 - Oct 25 with 950 viewsHighjack

The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001

It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.

But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong.


So they are locked into austerity forever then.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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The Italian Budget on 14:53 - Oct 25 with 941 viewsBatterseajack

The Italian Budget on 14:28 - Oct 25 by Highjack

So they are locked into austerity forever then.


Are they locked into austerity?
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The Italian Budget on 15:13 - Oct 25 with 927 viewsHighjack

The Italian Budget on 14:53 - Oct 25 by Batterseajack

Are they locked into austerity?


Clearly.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

1

The Italian Budget on 18:59 - Oct 25 with 872 viewsswanforthemoney

Italy could make a decent fist of blowing up the Euro, and dropping us into another 2008-style banking crisis unless they listen to the European commission.
Italy's situation in much different to ours. Historically they have built up a deficit which is a really high proportion of GDP. And although they currently run a primary budget surplus (ignoring interest payments); when you take into account the interest payments, they would be running a deficit which will prove unsustainable. The interest payments would eventually rise exponentially and Italy would default. The situation is similar to that of Greece, but the Italians have about 8 times the debt of the Greeks. (2.4 trillion rather than 300 billion).

Over and above that, the growth projections are incredibly optimistic to say the least, with more modest and sensible growth projections, their deficit will look even worse than they have forecast.

By contrast, higher Government spending in the UK could be sustained, given the low interest rates we pay and the maturity of a lot of the debt. As a last resort if we get in to trouble we have more flexibility to 'print' money and/or adjust interest rates because we have our own currency rather than being part of the Euro.
Government spending could be funded by modest tax rises or sustainable borrowing.

I stand in the North Stand

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The Italian Budget on 07:45 - Oct 26 with 798 viewsfelixstowe_jack

Higher uk borrowing could not be sustained. We are currently paying £40 billion in interest payments every year. If Macdonnell borrowed another £49 billion the pound would dive interest payments would double to £80 billion
They tried that in Venezuela thier economy collapsed despite their vast oil reserves and smallish population.

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