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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case 10:09 - May 18 with 3419 viewsLegend83

With all the dreadful stuff going on in the world it takes a lot to shock me, but this story did. Surely the most devilish act and quite frankly, though I don't believe in capital punishment, I would not shed a tear if this evil woman was just removed from existence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-43949310

(Warning: not a nice read)
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 10:12 - May 18 with 3416 viewsmoonie

Excellent post
she said she thought it was water!

Guy was in agony and stayed that way until he decided to end his life.

But ...not guilty of murder. Just wtf !


Justice .my arse
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 10:20 - May 18 with 3400 viewsLegend83

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 10:12 - May 18 by moonie

Excellent post
she said she thought it was water!

Guy was in agony and stayed that way until he decided to end his life.

But ...not guilty of murder. Just wtf !


Justice .my arse


Yes on the face of it a disgusting outcome however the law is grey in this area and the issue surrounded the causation or "causal link" and whether this could be broken by medical intervention e.g. euthanasia.

Forunately, despite not being guilty of murder that witch could still get a life term as I believe the guidelines could see this act fall under GBH with intent sentencing range.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:05 - May 18 with 3363 viewsSirjohnalot

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 10:20 - May 18 by Legend83

Yes on the face of it a disgusting outcome however the law is grey in this area and the issue surrounded the causation or "causal link" and whether this could be broken by medical intervention e.g. euthanasia.

Forunately, despite not being guilty of murder that witch could still get a life term as I believe the guidelines could see this act fall under GBH with intent sentencing range.


Very interesting case. Can well understand why the CPS charged with muder, causal link was definitely there I’d say. However, the offence for which she was convicted will result in a very similar sentence in any regard.

I’ve copied the legislation below. It’s coverred under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, so when you hear MPs making all the noise about introducing new legislation, it’s nonsense as it’s already in existence.

The court have a discretion to give a life sentence, which is very likely to be the case here. What that means is she may get a minimum sentence of, say 15 years (which she will serve in its entirety) before being considered eligible for parole. However she will remain on licence for life, which means that she can be recalled to prison.

It’ll be interesting to hear how HHJ sentences this. No credit for a guilty plea, the effects were obviously devastating, resulting in his death, causal link or not, no remorse. She’s going away for a very long time.

Re why the jury did not find murder, if I was defending I’d have said that the link wasn’t sufficiently made out. The example that was given on another BBC was an excellent one, which was Joe gets stabbed, runs across the road to get away and gets knocked down and killed by a car which he ran out in front of. That’s clear......stab....run....hit by car...killed. The death was an immediate and direct result of the stabbing. In this case, it could be argued, it is less clear. Some time has passed, he has chosen to fly to a country and end his life. Other options could have been perused. Not clear enough for the link to be established.

Like I said, I’d have convicted as I think it’s there, but it is arguable, at least, that it’s not.

The jury would also have benn aware of the sentence for the corrosive material, which may well have influenced their decision.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/29
[Post edited 18 May 2018 13:08]
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 13:03 - May 18 with 3300 viewsLegend83

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:05 - May 18 by Sirjohnalot

Very interesting case. Can well understand why the CPS charged with muder, causal link was definitely there I’d say. However, the offence for which she was convicted will result in a very similar sentence in any regard.

I’ve copied the legislation below. It’s coverred under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, so when you hear MPs making all the noise about introducing new legislation, it’s nonsense as it’s already in existence.

The court have a discretion to give a life sentence, which is very likely to be the case here. What that means is she may get a minimum sentence of, say 15 years (which she will serve in its entirety) before being considered eligible for parole. However she will remain on licence for life, which means that she can be recalled to prison.

It’ll be interesting to hear how HHJ sentences this. No credit for a guilty plea, the effects were obviously devastating, resulting in his death, causal link or not, no remorse. She’s going away for a very long time.

Re why the jury did not find murder, if I was defending I’d have said that the link wasn’t sufficiently made out. The example that was given on another BBC was an excellent one, which was Joe gets stabbed, runs across the road to get away and gets knocked down and killed by a car which he ran out in front of. That’s clear......stab....run....hit by car...killed. The death was an immediate and direct result of the stabbing. In this case, it could be argued, it is less clear. Some time has passed, he has chosen to fly to a country and end his life. Other options could have been perused. Not clear enough for the link to be established.

Like I said, I’d have convicted as I think it’s there, but it is arguable, at least, that it’s not.

The jury would also have benn aware of the sentence for the corrosive material, which may well have influenced their decision.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/29
[Post edited 18 May 2018 13:08]


Great post, agree with every word.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 16:50 - May 18 with 3215 viewsmoonie

His fall not that appalling abyss of pain and suffering was both direct and immediate .

Grey or not, it's not justice. She caused his death directly and with malice .

Justice ..what a feckn joke of a country .
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 17:05 - May 18 with 3202 viewsSirjohnalot

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 16:50 - May 18 by moonie

His fall not that appalling abyss of pain and suffering was both direct and immediate .

Grey or not, it's not justice. She caused his death directly and with malice .

Justice ..what a feckn joke of a country .


It’s the jury made up for everyday people who heard the entire case and applied the law which is clear. Like I said, she will get an extremely heavy sentence, likely to be life.

Why is that not justice ?
[Post edited 18 May 2018 17:06]
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:24 - May 21 with 3038 viewsblaenaugwentjack

Justice my arse. Tip the woman upside down and pour the same acid into her c#?t, job done.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 07:02 - May 22 with 2938 viewsGowerjack

An appalling crime.

The woman concerned should spend the rest of her days behind bars.


However it wasn't murder, he chose to end his own life. It was suicide.

Plastic since 1974
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:23 - May 23 with 2849 viewsblaenaugwentjack

Just heard her sentence on the radio, life but, will serve a mininium of 12 yrs. Joke.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:48 - May 23 with 2836 viewsmoonie

Sorry ,but it really s a sick joke.

Please don't let anyone imp fer his decision to take his own life was not based on his attack.

This attack led to his suicide . Had he not been so attacked, he would still be here .

12 years before parole ?
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 21:40 - May 23 with 2706 viewsFlashberryjack

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:23 - May 23 by blaenaugwentjack

Just heard her sentence on the radio, life but, will serve a mininium of 12 yrs. Joke.


Why the f*ck do they call 12 f*cking years "life" ?

Hello

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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 21:42 - May 23 with 2713 viewsNeath_Jack

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:05 - May 18 by Sirjohnalot

Very interesting case. Can well understand why the CPS charged with muder, causal link was definitely there I’d say. However, the offence for which she was convicted will result in a very similar sentence in any regard.

I’ve copied the legislation below. It’s coverred under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, so when you hear MPs making all the noise about introducing new legislation, it’s nonsense as it’s already in existence.

The court have a discretion to give a life sentence, which is very likely to be the case here. What that means is she may get a minimum sentence of, say 15 years (which she will serve in its entirety) before being considered eligible for parole. However she will remain on licence for life, which means that she can be recalled to prison.

It’ll be interesting to hear how HHJ sentences this. No credit for a guilty plea, the effects were obviously devastating, resulting in his death, causal link or not, no remorse. She’s going away for a very long time.

Re why the jury did not find murder, if I was defending I’d have said that the link wasn’t sufficiently made out. The example that was given on another BBC was an excellent one, which was Joe gets stabbed, runs across the road to get away and gets knocked down and killed by a car which he ran out in front of. That’s clear......stab....run....hit by car...killed. The death was an immediate and direct result of the stabbing. In this case, it could be argued, it is less clear. Some time has passed, he has chosen to fly to a country and end his life. Other options could have been perused. Not clear enough for the link to be established.

Like I said, I’d have convicted as I think it’s there, but it is arguable, at least, that it’s not.

The jury would also have benn aware of the sentence for the corrosive material, which may well have influenced their decision.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/29
[Post edited 18 May 2018 13:08]


Very articulate fair play.

I want a mate like Flashberryjacks, who wears a Barnsley jersey with "Swans are my second team" on the back.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:21 - May 23 with 2683 viewsSirjohnalot

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 21:40 - May 23 by Flashberryjack

Why the f*ck do they call 12 f*cking years "life" ?


Because she will be licence for life fe. 12 years before she can be considered for parole. I’ve dealt with people who had similar sentences and were considered not suitable after the time elapsed
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:23 - May 23 with 2680 viewsSirjohnalot

Cheers Neath Jack. Bloody hope so, though, as it’s my job : )
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 08:46 - May 24 with 2621 viewsmoonie

but most are and serve half he time s dont let our legal friend obfuscate matters.

12 years is an insult.It may be a long time for our barrister chums but it means the women will leave prison a young woman to carry on her life,licence or not.

this woman s actions was the catalyst for an horrific suicide .
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 08:51 - May 24 with 2619 viewsMorfa_Same

This case should be a whole life sentence with no parole. Nothing else comes close to justice.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:04 - May 24 with 2572 viewsFlashberryjack

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:21 - May 23 by Sirjohnalot

Because she will be licence for life fe. 12 years before she can be considered for parole. I’ve dealt with people who had similar sentences and were considered not suitable after the time elapsed


Licence for life ! then why don't they say so ?

Most people assume that "life" means "life in prison" not life of having a f*cking licence to walk the streets.

This country's legal and sentencing system is a f*cking joke, if someone threw acid in the face of one of my family, I'd be walking the streets in 12 years with one of those stupid licences.
[Post edited 24 May 2018 14:28]

Hello

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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 12:05 - May 24 with 2575 viewsJackFish

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 08:46 - May 24 by moonie

but most are and serve half he time s dont let our legal friend obfuscate matters.

12 years is an insult.It may be a long time for our barrister chums but it means the women will leave prison a young woman to carry on her life,licence or not.

this woman s actions was the catalyst for an horrific suicide .


It's a life sentence with a minimum of twelve years before she's eligible for a parole hearing, there's no guarantee that'd be granted and in this case I'd imagine it wouldn't be due to the nature of her offence. Even if she is released after twelve years, or later, she's still going to be subject to strict conditions that if broken mean she'll be straight back in prison. That's why it's called a life sentence.

She's not a young woman either really, she'll be 60 in 12 years time.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:38 - May 24 with 2469 viewsmoonie

You miss the point .as other legal professionals do .

Out in Twelve years ! Well yes ,out being the operative word . He won't be .


Strict? You what? Do you have any fookn idea what strict is.

This women will be out and free whereas he won't be.


It's that simple


Justice my arse
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 16:22 - May 25 with 2397 viewsblaenaugwentjack

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:38 - May 24 by moonie

You miss the point .as other legal professionals do .

Out in Twelve years ! Well yes ,out being the operative word . He won't be .


Strict? You what? Do you have any fookn idea what strict is.

This women will be out and free whereas he won't be.


It's that simple


Justice my arse


I just hope someone gets her when she gets out, like for like hopefully.
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Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 17:36 - May 25 with 2377 viewsSirjohnalot

Acid attacks - the Mark Van Dongen case on 22:38 - May 24 by moonie

You miss the point .as other legal professionals do .

Out in Twelve years ! Well yes ,out being the operative word . He won't be .


Strict? You what? Do you have any fookn idea what strict is.

This women will be out and free whereas he won't be.


It's that simple


Justice my arse


Hi Moonie, I really hope that I and other legal professionals don’t miss the point as we have spent many years studying and then many years after in court dealing with such things evry day.

The whole point is that is very unlikely she will be out in twelve years. That is the point where she will be eligible to be even considered for parole. It’s very likely that her time served will be a lot longer than this.
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