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Brexit Progress 10:06 - Sep 6 with 26415 viewsBatterseajack

Michael Gove “we hold all the cards and can choose the path we want”
Boris Johnson “continue to be free trade and access to the single market”
David Davis “We will do deals with our trading partners and do them quickly”

Well these quotes couldn't seem further from truth right now. They campaigned for Brexit , yet now these three are in positions of power, appear totally incapable of delivering it and have vastly underestimated and misunderstood their counterparts in the EU. Will these three or even the Tories ever be accountable for how Brexit is being carried out?

BTW - This is not intended as another argument for the rights and wrongs for voting to leave / remain. But to discuss the politicians who appear to have no plan whatsoever for this.
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Brexit Progress on 16:39 - Sep 8 with 3440 viewsHumpty

http://newsthump.com/2017/09/01/liam-fox-claims-he-is-being-blackmailed-into-pay
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Brexit Progress on 18:11 - Sep 8 with 3409 viewsYossarian

Brexit Progress on 13:09 - Sep 8 by Batterseajack

So i suppose you also have an issue with the UK civil servants who are unelected and run our country.

The unelected EU officials you talk of draft up the legislation for elected members representing each country to vote on.


Not the best analogy. Civil Servants don't make policy- they implement it. Local Government in Britain by Tony Byrne published by Penguin is a very insightful read.

"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)

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Brexit Progress on 18:13 - Sep 8 with 3407 viewsYossarian

Brexit Progress on 13:29 - Sep 8 by sherpajacob

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_3.1.3.h

What you ask for in terms of free movement of labour was already available within the EU, Be economically self sufficient within 3 months or leave. its just the UK chose not to apply it. One of the reasons Cameron's negotiations failed, he was asking for something he could have already had.

In respect of un electing Junker, nobody outside Maidenhead has the power to unelect Theresa May. We do however have the house of lords to keep her in check.


Interesting perspective- not sure it's factually correct but I like your perspective!

"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)

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Brexit Progress on 19:20 - Sep 8 with 3384 viewsexiledclaseboy

Brexit Progress on 18:11 - Sep 8 by Yossarian

Not the best analogy. Civil Servants don't make policy- they implement it. Local Government in Britain by Tony Byrne published by Penguin is a very insightful read.


That's only partly true. The civil service is charged with making the programme and priorities of the government of the day a reality. The policy detail of how that programme is implemented is very much a civil service function with ministers taking the bigger decisions on advice and recommendations from civil servants. In this case there's a small army of civil servants desperately trying to make sense of what the UK wants its relationship with the EU post-Brexit to look like so ministers and negotiators have some idea if what they want from the negotiations. But it's an absolute minefield with so much to consider. Quite why Article 50 was triggered when it was is completely beyond me. They could have waited a year or two, done all the necessary preparatory work instead of trying to do it on the fly and the UK would have been in a much stronger position when the negotiations started. But like many decisions since 2010 which has led us to thus position, the UK's future prosperity has been sacrificed at the altar of internal Tory party politics.

Poll: Tory leader

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Brexit Progress on 20:54 - Sep 8 with 3358 viewsJack_Meoff

Look where public money goes. Yay.

https://www.channel4.com/news/conservative-mp-suella-fernandes-warns-theresa-may

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Brexit Progress on 23:12 - Sep 8 with 3321 viewsDJack

Brexit Progress on 13:09 - Sep 8 by Batterseajack

So i suppose you also have an issue with the UK civil servants who are unelected and run our country.

The unelected EU officials you talk of draft up the legislation for elected members representing each country to vote on.


Whoa there fella, stop talking sense as it upsets the little people... as in Little Englanders and small minded people.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Brexit Progress on 23:19 - Sep 8 with 3315 viewsDJack

Brexit Progress on 00:50 - Sep 7 by Highjack

Exactly. It's a complete dictatorship. See today they are overriding the democratically elected government of Hungary. They will now have to accept thousands of migrants or "face the consequences". If that's not a dictatorship I don't know what is. One spokesman even said "it doesn't matter whether they voted for it or not".

Get us out ASAP.


These days I shake my head and wonder "What happened to the poster Highjack"...farking shame.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Brexit Progress on 23:29 - Sep 8 with 3313 viewsDJack

Brexit Progress on 18:29 - Sep 7 by 73_Symonds_Yat

I couldn't give a shite what you think. The UK 🇬🇧 is leaving end of ....go and cry.


...thankfully nobody gives a shat what you think! The Uk/GB has a debt oustanding...go and cry.

Hope this helps

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Brexit Progress on 23:52 - Sep 8 with 3305 viewsDJack

Brexit Progress on 18:11 - Sep 8 by Yossarian

Not the best analogy. Civil Servants don't make policy- they implement it. Local Government in Britain by Tony Byrne published by Penguin is a very insightful read.


A couple of points...

Firstly: Yossarian, oops, owned by ECB in his reply.

Secondly: The Civil Service who support whichever department often (usually) get lumbered with advisor's (appointed by government) to provide the desired outcome (or worse) that the government want. e.g ex-MI6 man Charles Farr for our latest security (MASS SURVEILLANCE) laws

Thirdly: Perhaps you need more insightful reads?

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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Brexit Progress on 00:46 - Sep 9 with 3294 viewsLeonWasGod

Brexit Progress on 18:11 - Sep 8 by Yossarian

Not the best analogy. Civil Servants don't make policy- they implement it. Local Government in Britain by Tony Byrne published by Penguin is a very insightful read.


Batterseajack's right in principle though - there's involvement of democratically-electef and also non-elected people in both systems (UK & EU). Civil servants may initiate legislation in the EU, but there's a lot of consultation (we often input into this legislation). MEPs are often accused of 'just' rubber stamping legislation, but by the time it's reached them we may have had the chance to contribute at various stages. I think too much is made of the democracy card, but that's just my own view. I don't see a big diffetence between the systems. Here, the non-democratic House of Lords can derail a piece of legislation, for example, but you wouldn't get that in the European Parliament. Our elected MEPs have the final say.
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Brexit Progress on 06:56 - Sep 9 with 3276 viewswobbly

Brexit Progress on 16:36 - Sep 8 by sherpajacob

The new position will be negotiated with the UK as a non member, The bill is to settle outstanding liabilities.

If I had an ongoing contract to supply widgets to UK PLC to 2020 and they broke that contract in 2016 saying we wont pay for any more widgets after 2019, leaving me out of pocket, and they then said lets negotiate a new contract to supply thingybobs, I would politely ask them to settle their bill for the first contract before I considered doing business with them again.


Of course. Because separating a country with one of the,largest, most complicated, most sophisticated economies of the world from a 28 nation trading and political union that has been growing in size and complexity for 60 years is just like selling widgets. Or two people getting divorced. Or someone being made redundant.

I simply can't get my head around how it is possibly the right strategy for either side to reach a good agreement. The EU is historically a very process driven set of institutions. It has to be. They agreed the process and despite the fact it is flawed, the Eu will do what it always does and press on regardless.

Seeing as you like analogies, its not a speedboat. It's a huge oil tanker. With a wonky rudder. It can't change course.
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Brexit Progress on 09:22 - Sep 9 with 3262 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 22:39 - Sep 7 by LeonWasGod

EU assets owable to the UK are part of the negotiations, even down to the ridiculousness of arguing the toss over the contents of the wine cellar (which will only go to the Lords/HoC anyway).

We've certainly got obligations we've already signed up to. Whether there's a legal requirement for us to pay isn't known and could probably only be determined if we went through arbitration. I've not been following the last round of negotiations closely, but I wonder if this is what the UK govt want - take it to the courts and hope to back out of our commitments?


It is known and it's a fact, the British have no legal obligation to pay a single penny, on leaving.
So what you said is incorrect.
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Brexit Progress on 09:25 - Sep 9 with 3260 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 22:02 - Sep 7 by sherpajacob

Northern Ireland voted to remain, they are being taken out against their will.

Ireland would prefer the UK to remain in the EU, but if not the EU at least remain in the customs union which would allow a soft border and common travel area to continue. It is the UK government that has dismissed this solution without prior consultation with any of the affected parties.

This whole situation was flagged up and highlighted before the referendum, but any concerns were dismissed by brexiteers as scaremongering.


When did Northern Ireland have a referendum on eu membership?
You'll find they haven't. It was a UK referendum, which the majority who voted, decided it was time to leave.
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Brexit Progress on 09:26 - Sep 9 with 3259 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 19:20 - Sep 8 by exiledclaseboy

That's only partly true. The civil service is charged with making the programme and priorities of the government of the day a reality. The policy detail of how that programme is implemented is very much a civil service function with ministers taking the bigger decisions on advice and recommendations from civil servants. In this case there's a small army of civil servants desperately trying to make sense of what the UK wants its relationship with the EU post-Brexit to look like so ministers and negotiators have some idea if what they want from the negotiations. But it's an absolute minefield with so much to consider. Quite why Article 50 was triggered when it was is completely beyond me. They could have waited a year or two, done all the necessary preparatory work instead of trying to do it on the fly and the UK would have been in a much stronger position when the negotiations started. But like many decisions since 2010 which has led us to thus position, the UK's future prosperity has been sacrificed at the altar of internal Tory party politics.


Complete nonsense.
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Brexit Progress on 09:37 - Sep 9 with 3252 viewsJack_Meoff

Brexit Progress on 09:26 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

Complete nonsense.


Care to expand as to why? Genuine question.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Brexit Progress on 09:45 - Sep 9 with 3247 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 09:37 - Sep 9 by Jack_Meoff

Care to expand as to why? Genuine question.


It's just another example of trying to delay/stop Brexit.
Every politician (and they voted 6-1 , in favour of the referendum) knew the rules of the game, (metaphorically speaking). Even the Prime minister at the time said article 50 would to envoked, straight away.

Just delaying tactics from sore losers and they mustn't be allowed to get away with it.
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Brexit Progress on 10:01 - Sep 9 with 3232 viewsBatterseajack

Brexit Progress on 09:22 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

It is known and it's a fact, the British have no legal obligation to pay a single penny, on leaving.
So what you said is incorrect.


Are these alternative facts your dealing with here?

In the written parliamentary statement, Mr Davis outlined Britain's position on any financial settlement.

He said: 'On the financial settlement, as set out in the Prime Minister’s letter to President Tusk, the Government has been clear that we will work with the EU to determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of our continuing partnership.

'The Government recognises that the UK has obligations to the EU, and the EU obligations to the UK, that will survive the UK’s withdrawal—and that these need to be resolved. '

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4696084/amp/David-
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Brexit Progress on 10:06 - Sep 9 with 3229 viewsBatterseajack

Brexit Progress on 09:45 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

It's just another example of trying to delay/stop Brexit.
Every politician (and they voted 6-1 , in favour of the referendum) knew the rules of the game, (metaphorically speaking). Even the Prime minister at the time said article 50 would to envoked, straight away.

Just delaying tactics from sore losers and they mustn't be allowed to get away with it.


What's this got to do with what ECB has said?

No one here is disputing the result, we're disputing the way in which brexit is currently being managed. There is literally no positive news right now about brexit, not even from the pro leave rags. What's happened to the sunny uplands we were promised? Or the upper hand over Europe we supposedly had? Right now it's damage limitation and even that doesn't seem to be going well. These people inow n charge campaigned for brexit and it's proving to be a mess
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Brexit Progress on 10:08 - Sep 9 with 3228 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 10:01 - Sep 9 by Batterseajack

Are these alternative facts your dealing with here?

In the written parliamentary statement, Mr Davis outlined Britain's position on any financial settlement.

He said: 'On the financial settlement, as set out in the Prime Minister’s letter to President Tusk, the Government has been clear that we will work with the EU to determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of our continuing partnership.

'The Government recognises that the UK has obligations to the EU, and the EU obligations to the UK, that will survive the UK’s withdrawal—and that these need to be resolved. '

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4696084/amp/David-


There is no legal obligation and that's a fact. No doubt weak British politicians will make a good will gesture and pay something.
Don't forget the British people partly own the vast fortune that the eu have built up, and we should be making sure the eu , pay the British what is ours.
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Brexit Progress on 10:10 - Sep 9 with 3222 viewsKilkennyjack

Brexit Progress on 09:45 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

It's just another example of trying to delay/stop Brexit.
Every politician (and they voted 6-1 , in favour of the referendum) knew the rules of the game, (metaphorically speaking). Even the Prime minister at the time said article 50 would to envoked, straight away.

Just delaying tactics from sore losers and they mustn't be allowed to get away with it.


I guess you do understand that the EU Ref was solely about the leadership of the Tory party, don't you ?

Nobody really thinks its a good idea.
Its a very bad idea which will destroy jobs and public services.
People were lied to.

I hope that helps.
Brexit = bad idea 👍

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Brexit Progress on 10:13 - Sep 9 with 3220 viewsJack_Meoff

Brexit Progress on 10:06 - Sep 9 by Batterseajack

What's this got to do with what ECB has said?

No one here is disputing the result, we're disputing the way in which brexit is currently being managed. There is literally no positive news right now about brexit, not even from the pro leave rags. What's happened to the sunny uplands we were promised? Or the upper hand over Europe we supposedly had? Right now it's damage limitation and even that doesn't seem to be going well. These people inow n charge campaigned for brexit and it's proving to be a mess


Mental isn't it? This Brexit fiasco surely has to be the single biggest f*ck up in living memory, and in fairness it's had some stiff competition. (This isn't about the pros and cons of the EU, merely how the current incumbents have handled it from the start until now.) The whole sorry situation should really have been the death knell for the car crash that is the Tory party, and had we an objective media in this country that held power to account properly, probably would have been.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Brexit Progress on 10:14 - Sep 9 with 3216 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 10:06 - Sep 9 by Batterseajack

What's this got to do with what ECB has said?

No one here is disputing the result, we're disputing the way in which brexit is currently being managed. There is literally no positive news right now about brexit, not even from the pro leave rags. What's happened to the sunny uplands we were promised? Or the upper hand over Europe we supposedly had? Right now it's damage limitation and even that doesn't seem to be going well. These people inow n charge campaigned for brexit and it's proving to be a mess


You obviously swallow all the propaganda that the likes of the BBC spew out.
Do you honestly believe that the UK, can't stand on it own two feet ?.
It's all smoke & mirrors, the eu are terrified that Brexit will be huge success, which would no doubt mean other countries following.

As for positive news regarding Brexit, there is absolutely loads. As the saying goes "there are none so blind as those who will not see"
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Brexit Progress on 10:17 - Sep 9 with 3213 views73_Symonds_Yat

Brexit Progress on 10:10 - Sep 9 by Kilkennyjack

I guess you do understand that the EU Ref was solely about the leadership of the Tory party, don't you ?

Nobody really thinks its a good idea.
Its a very bad idea which will destroy jobs and public services.
People were lied to.

I hope that helps.
Brexit = bad idea 👍


"Nobody thinks Brexit is a good idea" it's this sort of arrogance that led many to vote leave.
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Brexit Progress on 10:27 - Sep 9 with 3203 viewsJack_Meoff

Brexit Progress on 10:14 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

You obviously swallow all the propaganda that the likes of the BBC spew out.
Do you honestly believe that the UK, can't stand on it own two feet ?.
It's all smoke & mirrors, the eu are terrified that Brexit will be huge success, which would no doubt mean other countries following.

As for positive news regarding Brexit, there is absolutely loads. As the saying goes "there are none so blind as those who will not see"


You're missing the point. This isn't about whether the UK can 'stand on it own two feet' long term. It's about the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of foresight shown by the UK government. They're literally making it up as they're going along. I have deep misgivings about the EU, but some semblance of plan for leaving it would have been, you know, nice.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Brexit Progress on 10:29 - Sep 9 with 3197 viewsBatterseajack

Brexit Progress on 10:14 - Sep 9 by 73_Symonds_Yat

You obviously swallow all the propaganda that the likes of the BBC spew out.
Do you honestly believe that the UK, can't stand on it own two feet ?.
It's all smoke & mirrors, the eu are terrified that Brexit will be huge success, which would no doubt mean other countries following.

As for positive news regarding Brexit, there is absolutely loads. As the saying goes "there are none so blind as those who will not see"


It's like you don't read or take in what people are saying on this threat and you keep repeating false assertions that people have already responded to.

I've deliberately used mailonline and express in my links as these are fiercely pro brexit rags to dispel what the accusation in your first sentence.

If there's loads of positive news about how brexit is being carried out, please provide a few, otherwise your last statement is kind of ironic.
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