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Brexit Progress 10:06 - Sep 6 with 25595 viewsBatterseajack

Michael Gove “we hold all the cards and can choose the path we want”
Boris Johnson “continue to be free trade and access to the single market”
David Davis “We will do deals with our trading partners and do them quickly”

Well these quotes couldn't seem further from truth right now. They campaigned for Brexit , yet now these three are in positions of power, appear totally incapable of delivering it and have vastly underestimated and misunderstood their counterparts in the EU. Will these three or even the Tories ever be accountable for how Brexit is being carried out?

BTW - This is not intended as another argument for the rights and wrongs for voting to leave / remain. But to discuss the politicians who appear to have no plan whatsoever for this.
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Brexit Progress on 10:35 - Sep 6 with 4283 viewslonglostjack

Typical Tory. Arrogant beyond belief.

Poll: Who is responsible for the Brexit fiasco?

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Brexit Progress on 10:42 - Sep 6 with 4274 viewsBatterseajack

Yesterday, David Davis said in the commons "Nobody ever pretended this would be simple or easy"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/05/no-one-said-brexit-would-easy-says-da
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Brexit Progress on 11:19 - Sep 6 with 4236 viewsWarwickHunt

Brexit Progress on 10:42 - Sep 6 by Batterseajack

Yesterday, David Davis said in the commons "Nobody ever pretended this would be simple or easy"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/05/no-one-said-brexit-would-easy-says-da


Yes they did, David. Yes they did.
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Brexit Progress on 11:39 - Sep 6 with 4218 viewssherpajacob

its simple arithmetic.

The EU can select the best negotiators and diplomats from amongst 27 countries, whilst we have Davis, Fox, Bojo and Rees- Mogg.

its like picking a football team and being able to choose from Ronaldo, Mata, Kante, Modric, Pogba, Hazard, Marchisio, Muller, Kroos, etc etc

or having to pick Jake Livermore in midfield

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Brexit Progress on 11:44 - Sep 6 with 4210 viewssherpajacob

Brexit Progress on 10:35 - Sep 6 by longlostjack

Typical Tory. Arrogant beyond belief.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/08/why-england-can-win-euro-2016-13-

The arrogance extends to many areas.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

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Brexit Progress on 12:11 - Sep 6 with 4177 viewsBatterseajack

The leave alliance thinks this is a shambles thus far and think that failure is inevitable and that we're heading for a no deal. What a mess we've got ourselves into!





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Brexit Progress on 14:13 - Sep 6 with 4116 viewsLeonWasGod

Don't know who the Leave Alliance is, but I'd echo the points in those tweets. Forget the EU, we're struggling with things that should be in our control.

Of course, this is all easily understood when you remember that Davis, Gove, BoJo, and ultimately May, are all cretins and chancers. Not that it helps point a way forward out of this mess.
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Brexit Progress on 16:17 - Sep 6 with 4064 viewsBatterseajack

Brexit Progress on 14:13 - Sep 6 by LeonWasGod

Don't know who the Leave Alliance is, but I'd echo the points in those tweets. Forget the EU, we're struggling with things that should be in our control.

Of course, this is all easily understood when you remember that Davis, Gove, BoJo, and ultimately May, are all cretins and chancers. Not that it helps point a way forward out of this mess.


Its mad how badly this is all going and we're locked in now to see this right through the eventual consultation. The ball is rolling now and nothing can stop it.

We were also told we would get our sovereignty back and make our own trade deals with the rest of the world. In reality, with the likes of Japan and Canada, this just means copying and pasting whatever agreement and rules that they have agreed on with the EU because we don't have the capacity to negotiate our own rules and standards with them.
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Brexit Progress on 16:54 - Sep 6 with 4028 viewsPozuelosSideys

Wahh wahh. Lets see what the outcome is first.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Brexit Progress on 17:10 - Sep 6 with 4011 viewsBatterseajack

Brexit Progress on 16:54 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Wahh wahh. Lets see what the outcome is first.


...and then what?
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Brexit Progress on 17:33 - Sep 6 with 3999 viewsPozuelosSideys

Brexit Progress on 17:10 - Sep 6 by Batterseajack

...and then what?


Well until solid agreements have been thrashed out and everyone knows where they stand and whats on the table, theres not a great deal any of us can do. There is pretty much zero information in the public eye as it stands.

It does seem as though the EU are hell bent on extracting as much cash as they can, and even then its unlikely they want much of a deal, particularly anything of benefit to the UK, even if it is to their own detriment.

If this was two private entities, a skeleton framework would have been decided by now.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Brexit Progress on 17:57 - Sep 6 with 3977 viewsmonmouth

Brexit Progress on 17:33 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Well until solid agreements have been thrashed out and everyone knows where they stand and whats on the table, theres not a great deal any of us can do. There is pretty much zero information in the public eye as it stands.

It does seem as though the EU are hell bent on extracting as much cash as they can, and even then its unlikely they want much of a deal, particularly anything of benefit to the UK, even if it is to their own detriment.

If this was two private entities, a skeleton framework would have been decided by now.


In other words, they're fine, we're f*cked?

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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Brexit Progress on 18:48 - Sep 6 with 3943 viewsPozuelosSideys

Brexit Progress on 17:57 - Sep 6 by monmouth

In other words, they're fine, we're f*cked?


Not at all. Takes two sides to do a deal as you know. If one side just wants to block, then it probably will never get made. That doesnt necessarily mean the UK ends up being the loser here, despite all the crying and whinging. Not saying itll be all sunshine and rainbows, but there are plenty of potential upsides to go alongside the downs.

It does sound like the UK have tried to be flexible, while the EU just throws out unrealistic demands. But like i said, we dont know any of the details behind closed doors.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Brexit Progress on 19:13 - Sep 6 with 3925 viewsexiledclaseboy

Brexit Progress on 17:33 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Well until solid agreements have been thrashed out and everyone knows where they stand and whats on the table, theres not a great deal any of us can do. There is pretty much zero information in the public eye as it stands.

It does seem as though the EU are hell bent on extracting as much cash as they can, and even then its unlikely they want much of a deal, particularly anything of benefit to the UK, even if it is to their own detriment.

If this was two private entities, a skeleton framework would have been decided by now.


There won't be any solid agreements in the available time. At the very best there'll be a transitional arrangement for a number of years during which we'll remain a member of the EU in all but name. The government hasn't even decided what its negotiating position and red lines are on most issues. This is six months after A50 was triggered and three months after negotiations started. There's zero information in the public domain because there's zero information to put into the public domain. It's as bad as it looks.

Poll: Tory leader

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Brexit Progress on 19:20 - Sep 6 with 3914 viewssherpajacob

Brexit Progress on 18:48 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Not at all. Takes two sides to do a deal as you know. If one side just wants to block, then it probably will never get made. That doesnt necessarily mean the UK ends up being the loser here, despite all the crying and whinging. Not saying itll be all sunshine and rainbows, but there are plenty of potential upsides to go alongside the downs.

It does sound like the UK have tried to be flexible, while the EU just throws out unrealistic demands. But like i said, we dont know any of the details behind closed doors.


For the last 40 years the EU has been more flexible towards the UK than any other member state with rebates, opt outs and veto's.

Since the referendum the EU has been consistent and transparent in all its positions.

The UK on the other hand.

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Brexit Progress on 19:34 - Sep 6 with 3899 viewssherpajacob

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41179339

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fishing%20for%20compliments

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Brexit Progress on 20:25 - Sep 6 with 3861 viewsPozuelosSideys

Brexit Progress on 19:20 - Sep 6 by sherpajacob

For the last 40 years the EU has been more flexible towards the UK than any other member state with rebates, opt outs and veto's.

Since the referendum the EU has been consistent and transparent in all its positions.

The UK on the other hand.


Depends what you mean by flexible. Id argue the EU flexibility towards the Eastern European states, and particularly the Southern contries such as Greece has far, far outweighed anything given to the UK. Multiple bailouts, book cooking, turning blind eyes towards human rights. All these things are far more serious than allowing the uk a few crumbs off an ever increasing table, with ever fewer slices of bread on it.

The EU has been transparent yes. Its their way with no negotiation and unrealistic demands. Come on, you seriously expect the UK to turn around and allow a foreign court to take precedent in the UK? pfft. They know this.

The only thing i can kinda see is the "bill". But it would need to be stipulated what that covers, ideally that is only for unfettered access to the marketplace in the EU. It wont be though.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Brexit Progress on 20:30 - Sep 6 with 3850 viewsPozuelosSideys

Brexit Progress on 19:13 - Sep 6 by exiledclaseboy

There won't be any solid agreements in the available time. At the very best there'll be a transitional arrangement for a number of years during which we'll remain a member of the EU in all but name. The government hasn't even decided what its negotiating position and red lines are on most issues. This is six months after A50 was triggered and three months after negotiations started. There's zero information in the public domain because there's zero information to put into the public domain. It's as bad as it looks.


So youre privvy to the blank pieces of paper with big "????" written on them on Davies' clipboard then? ;)

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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Brexit Progress on 20:53 - Sep 6 with 3829 viewsLeonWasGod

Brexit Progress on 16:54 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Wahh wahh. Lets see what the outcome is first.


Well yes agreed to an extent, as there's lots yet to happen yet. But we have seen some outcomes (or lack of) through, for example, progress with India which has been rather underwhelming. So I think there's evidence to suggest it's not going to be as easy as we are constantly being told by the leave brigade.
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Brexit Progress on 21:06 - Sep 6 with 3814 viewssherpajacob

Brexit Progress on 20:25 - Sep 6 by PozuelosSideys

Depends what you mean by flexible. Id argue the EU flexibility towards the Eastern European states, and particularly the Southern contries such as Greece has far, far outweighed anything given to the UK. Multiple bailouts, book cooking, turning blind eyes towards human rights. All these things are far more serious than allowing the uk a few crumbs off an ever increasing table, with ever fewer slices of bread on it.

The EU has been transparent yes. Its their way with no negotiation and unrealistic demands. Come on, you seriously expect the UK to turn around and allow a foreign court to take precedent in the UK? pfft. They know this.

The only thing i can kinda see is the "bill". But it would need to be stipulated what that covers, ideally that is only for unfettered access to the marketplace in the EU. It wont be though.


https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/financial-settlement-

The EU have said what the bill should cover, which is essentially a one off payment to cover expenditure on items and projects the UK had previously agreed to. They did this back in May.

It will not cover access to single market, but you would know that if you had been following any of it.

Anyway Theresa May says we are leaving the single market as to retain "unfettered access" would mean the jurisdiction of ECJ.

as Davis said " nobody said it would be easy" apart from Liam Fox who said it would be the easiest thing in history. Strong and Stable?

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Brexit Progress on 21:15 - Sep 6 with 3803 viewsDr_Winston

Not sure why a nation that has long been a massive net contributor to the EU budget and still has a significant trade deficit with it should be considering paying anything to retain access to its markets.

Mind you, we have sent the political equivalent of Huw Jenkins up to negotiate with the EU's Daniel Levy so we're probably going to get f*cking reamed.

This post has been edited by an administrator

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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Brexit Progress on 22:22 - Sep 6 with 3748 viewswestside

EU gives £31 million towards new Computer Science faculty at Swansea Uni Bay Campus while Tory Westminster Government scraps rail electrification to Swansea.

Yet Swansea votes for Brexit to leave EU and give control to Tory Westminster Government
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Brexit Progress on 22:42 - Sep 6 with 3723 viewsKilkennyjack

Brexit Progress on 22:22 - Sep 6 by westside

EU gives £31 million towards new Computer Science faculty at Swansea Uni Bay Campus while Tory Westminster Government scraps rail electrification to Swansea.

Yet Swansea votes for Brexit to leave EU and give control to Tory Westminster Government


100 per cent agree mate.

The nice European people helped wales cos we are so poor.
The uk government made Wales poor.

The idiotic welsh vote reflects the lack of a welsh free press.
Wales has no immigration problem, 94% of the people who live in wales were born in the uk.

Wales is now at the mercy of the English Tory Brexiteers.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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Brexit Progress on 23:01 - Sep 6 with 3706 viewsYossarian

Brexit Progress on 22:22 - Sep 6 by westside

EU gives £31 million towards new Computer Science faculty at Swansea Uni Bay Campus while Tory Westminster Government scraps rail electrification to Swansea.

Yet Swansea votes for Brexit to leave EU and give control to Tory Westminster Government


Good point- but all this investment didn't hold any water for the people who believe that the European project has involved the surrender of too many powers to a non- elected Executive which they perceive to hold the country to the free movement of people (rather than free movement of employed labour) which they fear has been largely responsible for changing Britain in ways they either fear or are deeply uncomfortable with. I suspect this issue is not confined to specific regions- it's a generally held perception outside London which has generally undergone a positive immigration experience. Nor do I think it is confined to 55 and over Daily Mail readers, retired Colonels writing angry letters to The Telegraph or white working class men from South Wales or Teeside who blame cheap unskilled labour immigration for all their woes. I suspect the last General Election was more a protest vote against continuing austerity rather than a proxy referendum on "hard Brexit". To the contrary, I think many voted Labour because they thought it would be a safe protest vote and everyone got the shock of their lives to see the end result. In the finest traditions, the Westminster bubble have completely misread what it meant and conveniently for some, they've recast the result. This has actually backfired against Labour voters who voted Leave. If the Government lose any part of 'The Great Repeal Bill' then it's possible another General Election could be called and if Labour retreat any more from the position they took on Brexit in their manifesto, then my guess is that they'll get hammered- just when they thought they were in sight of victory. Either way, I can see some significant compromises and both sides will be accused of 'selling out'.

"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)

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Brexit Progress on 23:20 - Sep 6 with 3692 viewsKilkennyjack

Brexit Progress on 23:01 - Sep 6 by Yossarian

Good point- but all this investment didn't hold any water for the people who believe that the European project has involved the surrender of too many powers to a non- elected Executive which they perceive to hold the country to the free movement of people (rather than free movement of employed labour) which they fear has been largely responsible for changing Britain in ways they either fear or are deeply uncomfortable with. I suspect this issue is not confined to specific regions- it's a generally held perception outside London which has generally undergone a positive immigration experience. Nor do I think it is confined to 55 and over Daily Mail readers, retired Colonels writing angry letters to The Telegraph or white working class men from South Wales or Teeside who blame cheap unskilled labour immigration for all their woes. I suspect the last General Election was more a protest vote against continuing austerity rather than a proxy referendum on "hard Brexit". To the contrary, I think many voted Labour because they thought it would be a safe protest vote and everyone got the shock of their lives to see the end result. In the finest traditions, the Westminster bubble have completely misread what it meant and conveniently for some, they've recast the result. This has actually backfired against Labour voters who voted Leave. If the Government lose any part of 'The Great Repeal Bill' then it's possible another General Election could be called and if Labour retreat any more from the position they took on Brexit in their manifesto, then my guess is that they'll get hammered- just when they thought they were in sight of victory. Either way, I can see some significant compromises and both sides will be accused of 'selling out'.


Nope.

Brexit is a disaster.
Labour needs to be very clearly anti hard brexit.
Clear red water been the Labour position and the Mayhem position.

Brexit is wasting a huge amount of money for nothing.
And its going to be funny seeing the faces when Britain opens up to the world - and the world arrives here in ever greater numbers. Brilliant.

Another election and May would step down. Fanny mun.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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