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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales 18:27 - Aug 24 with 13463 viewsjohnlangy

Meeting With Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris at their surgery in Brynhyfryd Library on 14th August 2015

There have been a lot of threads to do with the WAG's investment in Cardiff at the expense of the rest of Wales. I commented a number of times that what people should do is go to their AM/MP nd make their feelings known. I finally got off my own backside and went to see Mike Hedges, the Swansea East AM, 10 days ago. I also had the pleasure of speaking to Carolyn Harris MP who attended the same surgery. I won't go over all the points made in previous threads and all the things I said/asked them but I will try to explain the whole thing fairly briefly.

I said that in my opinion, and that of many others, the WAG is investing in Cardiff disproportionately at the expense of the rest of Wales in a similar way to how the UK government has done over the decades with London. I stressed a number of times that i'd be making comparisons with Swansea but my general point refers to the whole of Wales.

Firstly they talked about all the things happening or hopefully going to happen in Swansea. I agreed with their points but said that what has been invested in Cardiff down the years dwarfs the amount being talked about and the developments happening now, and due to happen, in Cardiff again dwarfs the Swansea investment. Just a couple of examples. The development of the old bus station site with a new 150,000 sq ft BBC Wales HQ, a 135,000 sq ft development already completed with another at the planning stage. Also the new bus 'interchange'. To put it in context the new bus station in Swansea took a decade to generate funding before completion and cost £11 m. The new 450,000 sq ft 'interchange' in Cardiff will cost £150 m what with the luxury Hotel, appartments and retail outlets. There's another thread from about a month ago with a link to the Walesonline article detailing all the plans so I won't repeat the rest.

They said that private investment is a decision by the company involved and out of government hands. I agreed it is the individual companies decision but said it's the WAG which creates the environment which persuades companies to invest in an area because they can see opportunities for profit. The setting of the Mill Stad (*) and the Mill Centre (the WAG with our money) in Cardiff ensures that millions upon millions of people are drawn in. As a result businesses can see a profit and invest there. One event at the Mill Stad injects £10 million into the Cardiff economy (NOT into the Welsh economy as is always repeated by politicians). How many large events happen each year at the Mill Stad ? If it is 50 then that is £500 million. No wonder companies invest there.

(* - this was WRU money but they worked with CC Council to ensure it happened in Cardiff – I don't actually know but I imagine the WAG worked behind the scenes to help as well)

I also mentioned about the Metro and the M4 relief road (£2/3 billion between them). Mike Hedges made the point about the traffic into Cardiff and the need to strengthen the infrastructure because of it. I said that's exactly my point. By ensuring billions are invested in Cardiff it draws people in which means there's a need to improve the infrastructure which will draw more people in which will generate more investment which will ...... You get my drift. He then made my point again by saying he could drive from one end of Swansea to the other relatively easily so the need for infrastructure improvements isn't there. Well obviously I said. Because Swansea hasn't been developed to anything like the extent of Cardiff which is my point.



I sent this email to Nicholas Parry of the EP on 13th Aug and got a reply from Richard Youle the following day.

Mr Parry,
 On a recent thread on a Swans website someone posted ‘I wonder if the Evening Post would have the $%^&* to have a debate on this’ so, with the Assembly elections coming up next year I thought i’d put the question to you.
In the opinion of myself and a huge number of people who have posted letters in the EP over the years a completely disproportionate amount of money is invested in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales. Similar opinions are expressed on this Swans website and I have no reasons to believe that, if I looked through other websites outside of the South East a similar message would emerge. I certainly know of many bloggers who post the same message.
 So, there’s the question. Will you do it ? It’s about time this was dragged into the open and the EP, being the best selling and most widely read newspaper in Wales would be the best means of having that debate.
 Looking forward to your reply.
John Young 


Hello,
 I’ll aim to look into this – have you got any evidence at this stage which suggests Cardiff does get a disproportionate amount of investment?
 Thanks Richard
Richard Youle


Richard asks for evidence. None of this is evidence, it's opinion but people's opinions matter. A result of our 'opinions' could be that we vote Labour out of control of the WAG next year. Also the result of our 'opinions' could be that Labour see them being read in the EP by 150,000 people and maybe finally decide things should change.

To me their answers say that they believe they've done the right thing. I'll be emailing both Mike and Carolyn to let them know how to access the thread in case they feel a need to join in. And if any of you decide you'd want to do something similar it turns out that what I was doing was lobbying. Apparently, if you want to lobby your AM/MP you should contact them and arrange an appointment rather than go to a normal surgery.

And to be fair to them both they talked to me for over 30 minutes out of a surgery time of an hour so huge plaudits to them for that.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:23 - Jan 10 with 620 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:42 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack

Who gives Cardiff council the money in the first place? Could it be the Welsh assembly? Every year the grants to Welsh councils are cut except Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan the two riches areas of Wales.


Swansea’s grant will remain the same as before

Yes Cardiff will get a 0.4% increase
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:44 - Jan 10 with 604 viewsLord_Bony

Well I live in Cardiff and from what I see,the council is skint.

They are forever looking for ways to cut back and sell off properties and land to make ends meet.

Cardiff generates a huge amount of money from the businesses operating there from non domestic business rates.
But all this cash goes straight back into the government coffers to be distributed throughout Wales.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:54 - Jan 10 with 582 viewsLord_Bony

Also the financial burden on Cardiff council from benefit claimants is huge.

People come here from all over Wales and beyond far more than any other region claiming housing benefits, council tax reduction etc. All this has to be paid from somewhere.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:30 - Jan 10 with 561 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:54 - Jan 10 by Lord_Bony

Also the financial burden on Cardiff council from benefit claimants is huge.

People come here from all over Wales and beyond far more than any other region claiming housing benefits, council tax reduction etc. All this has to be paid from somewhere.


Yea Cardiff might be suffering like all regions in Wales, but no way can you compare Cardiff to a down and out city like Swansea

You only have to read what was on icwales last week, in where it was claimed that Cardiff was the second best place in the whole of the U.K. to visit and to spend a short break

Edinburgh was top

Not only that, but Cardiff was voted the fourth best retail place in the U K

At one time we used to go to Swansea every other week shopping (work that one out)

These days, my wife wouldn’t go anywhere near the place as she thinks it do run down
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:36 - Jan 10 with 559 viewscontroversial_jack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:42 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

That I would say is a very big assumption as you have never had a Conservative lead Assembly to make a comparison

Compare how Health and especially Education are doing between the two countries and see the difference

You work for a Japanese company like I did and come up with an assumption like that one you have just done

You would be made to look a right fool

Facts is the key word I would say


Sorry, but that didn't make any sense whatsoever.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 15:23 - Jan 10 with 535 viewstrampie

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:18 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

What difference will Plaid make????

They have been hand in hand with Labour for decades

You will only be voting for another socialist party


Labour aren't a socialist party.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 15:27 - Jan 10 with 532 viewsLohengrin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 15:23 - Jan 10 by trampie

Labour aren't a socialist party.


Nor are Plaid, Tramp. Though contain a number of grandstanding socialist members.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 15:35 - Jan 10 with 522 viewsNeathJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:30 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

Yea Cardiff might be suffering like all regions in Wales, but no way can you compare Cardiff to a down and out city like Swansea

You only have to read what was on icwales last week, in where it was claimed that Cardiff was the second best place in the whole of the U.K. to visit and to spend a short break

Edinburgh was top

Not only that, but Cardiff was voted the fourth best retail place in the U K

At one time we used to go to Swansea every other week shopping (work that one out)

These days, my wife wouldn’t go anywhere near the place as she thinks it do run down


That's one positive.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:10 - Jan 10 with 508 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 15:23 - Jan 10 by trampie

Labour aren't a socialist party.


Shall we say that the marjority of Labour Member of Parliament will tell you that they are socialists and not Marxist like the remainder are
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:13 - Jan 10 with 503 viewsWingstandwood

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:44 - Jan 10 by blaenaugwentjack

Not so sure about that, Blaenau Gwent and quite a few other valley areas keep returning and staying with what has gone before politically.


Sorry I did not elaborate fully, I generalised the South East term. I meant constituencies to the East of SW Wales heartlands within the Cardiff boundary along with others e.g. Newport, Vale of Glamorgan, Monmouth.

Indeed traditional heartland seats indeed tend to stay loyal no matter what, and I have mentioned on here previously on other topic threads that there does rather seem to be a "Keep em poor, keep em voting Labour" strategy from Labour itself.
[Post edited 10 Jan 16:20]
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:08 - Jan 10 with 472 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:42 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack

Who gives Cardiff council the money in the first place? Could it be the Welsh assembly? Every year the grants to Welsh councils are cut except Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan the two riches areas of Wales.


If Valleyboy is referring to the Millennium Centre, the money came from the Heritage Lottery Fund and the Assembly, not Cardiff City Council.

From memory the Assembly money (our money) was £47 million.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:09 - Jan 10 with 471 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:36 - Jan 10 by blaenaugwentjack

Agree wholeheartedly with your view point in the lack of investment, not only in Swansea but in the rest of Wales. Sadly as long as the welsh voters keep returning the same political part, that has served Wales for the last 20 years at the assembly, nothing will change.


100% correct.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:13 - Jan 10 with 470 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:50 - Jan 10 by blaenaugwentjack

It is changing slowy, too slow for me but, plaid got within 650 votes at the last wag elections.


Labour's vote at the last WAG election was down 7.3%.

Hopefully it'll drop another 7.3% next time (or more with luck) and they'll lose a number of seats.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:45 - Jan 10 with 450 viewsswanforthemoney

Swansea has had loads of grant money from various sources over the years and it has been wasted on vanity projects and mistakes.
what was it? 27 million spent on the 'boulevard'. 10 million to change the roads for bendy bus. 12 million for the current road works to change it all back again and put new paving on the Kingsway.

4 million to demolish the old odeon and its just empty land atm.

1 million to repave near the railway station for a transport hub (joke). More money to change the same area when it was discovered they didn't own the land they had repaved.

New bus station for 11 million and its not really much improvement on the old one except they have got rid of the car parking spaces near the grand.

As a business owner I used to get endless letters about subsidised IT training schemes, with EU and Assembly backing, which were probably of dubious value.

Of all the above, I couldn't say what proportion was given as grants by the EU and the Assembly, but its got to have been 10s of millions in total. In terms of resulting actual economic benefit, its probably generated about 10% of sod all in solid permanent ongoing and future jobs. Its enough to make you weep.
[Post edited 10 Jan 18:55]

I stand in the North Stand

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:13 - Jan 10 with 436 viewstrampie

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:10 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

Shall we say that the marjority of Labour Member of Parliament will tell you that they are socialists and not Marxist like the remainder are


The majority of Parliamentary Labour are not socialist and the Labour party are not Socialist having abandoned Socialism decades ago, there is little difference between Labour and the Conservatives, GSTQ, right wing, imperialist unionists.
[Post edited 10 Jan 19:14]

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:45 - Jan 10 with 422 viewsLohengrin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:13 - Jan 10 by trampie

The majority of Parliamentary Labour are not socialist and the Labour party are not Socialist having abandoned Socialism decades ago, there is little difference between Labour and the Conservatives, GSTQ, right wing, imperialist unionists.
[Post edited 10 Jan 19:14]


That Rees Mogg and Dennis Skinner could be twins, Tramp. Only their Mothers could tell them apart...

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:10 - Jan 10 with 403 viewsJack59

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:54 - Jan 10 by Lord_Bony

Also the financial burden on Cardiff council from benefit claimants is huge.

People come here from all over Wales and beyond far more than any other region claiming housing benefits, council tax reduction etc. All this has to be paid from somewhere.


Cardiff Council administer the system and pay the benefits out directly. The Council then claims all the money back from Central Government ( Westminster ) plus they get an amount for administration.
The problem Is also the phenomenal political effort that goes into the City of Cardiff from all sides, compared to the rest of Wales
The minute any business or large employer fails in Cardiff, a huge immediate effort is made to find a replacement with the aid of financial incentives from the WAG.
and there's always a successful outcome for their efforts in the Cardiff area, whilst similar situations in other parts of Wales only end up with promises and FA else.
They all need to be voted out - especially the Labour mafia.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:13 - Jan 10 with 401 viewsLord_Bony

I see,interesting.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:32 - Jan 10 with 385 viewstrampie

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:45 - Jan 10 by Lohengrin

That Rees Mogg and Dennis Skinner could be twins, Tramp. Only their Mothers could tell them apart...


Well Skinner has been known to vote with the Conservative and Unionist party against his own.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:41 - Jan 10 with 377 viewstrampie

Its the way of the ruling right wing parties across the World to create City states, its very much in vogue to centralise services.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:01 - Jan 10 with 352 viewsLohengrin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:41 - Jan 10 by trampie

Its the way of the ruling right wing parties across the World to create City states, its very much in vogue to centralise services.


Control- Collectivise - Centralise

V I Lenin, 1920.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:07 - Jan 10 with 347 viewsLohengrin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:32 - Jan 10 by trampie

Well Skinner has been known to vote with the Conservative and Unionist party against his own.


‘His own’ were the 70.8% in his Bolsover constituency who voted Leave. I’d say he kept faith with those he was elected to represent.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:13 - Jan 10 with 338 viewstrampie

And that form of centralism didn't end well Lohengrin, yet lessons have not been learned and the UK Government is declaring war on villagers.
[Post edited 10 Jan 21:16]

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:18 - Jan 10 with 329 viewstrampie

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:07 - Jan 10 by Lohengrin

‘His own’ were the 70.8% in his Bolsover constituency who voted Leave. I’d say he kept faith with those he was elected to represent.


No difference between Labour and the Conservatives and Mogg and Skinner on certain topics then is there.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:33 - Jan 10 with 322 viewsLohengrin

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 21:18 - Jan 10 by trampie

No difference between Labour and the Conservatives and Mogg and Skinner on certain topics then is there.


Your support for the EU places you pretty definitively outside of ‘the left,’ Tramp...

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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